David Gregory just called them "presidential combatants," interesting.

The Obama campaign said that McCain needed a game changer tonight.

McCain did a great job overall, and it may give him a boost in the polls overall. McCain did seem to recognize the stakes of the campaign. Don't know if this will be enough to win it for McCain, but hopefully this will give him momentum after a solid few days for McCain. The problem was McCain had a lot of opportunities to hit Obama and he missed it, especially on the "checking power" argument.

Obama still maintains a solid lead over McCain and he won't see a precipitous decline after this debate. This is a Democratic year and Obama is riding the wave.

Again, I'm emotionally preparing for an Obama presidency, tonight Michelob Light has been my elixir.

Good night everyone. Happy voting!

Thanks for reading, everyone!

Alright, my friends. I'm signing out.

See you on election day.

This was an interesting debate. I thought the questions were much stronger and the candidates were pushed much harder. But they both choked.

Frankly, I think they're both exhausted. If this had been the first debate, they would have taken advantage of the tough questions to offer clear articulations of their policies. Tonight, they let the chance go.

Hear that, Dave? School vouchers. You know I love a good libertarian policy.

Cue music: "I believe that children are our future..."

"I don't think America's youth are interest groups. I think they are our future." Thank you. This is something McCain just doesn't understand. Let's see, however, if, as president, Obama delivers on all his promises to youth — and pays them back for all the moral support and free labor over the past 20-plus months. We'll have to make sure we hold him to it.

I said "pursue" careers in investment banking... not "secure" them

Investment banking doesn't exist any more Katie, much to the chagrin of many on the East Hill.

Teach for America is not the answer, John.

Teach for America allows the government to ignore the underlying issue in the education system. Rallying straight-A students to teach in Harlem for 2 years before they pursue lucrative careers in investment banking is not solving the problem. He needs to be talking about systemic change.

Higher pay for teachers sounds nice and is noble. But states are flat out broke right now. This is recurring problem with Obama's proposals.

This will be a federal mandate like No Child Left Behind.

Obama just made a really crucial point here. There is a profound difference between PRO-ABORTION and PRO-CHOICE. He says that nobody is pro-abortion, and that's probably a fair statement.

McCain says: "We need to change the culture of America." What we need to do is stop fighting these culture wars which, in the face of actual wars and economic meltdown seem more and more irrelevant. Mac has talked about the '30s and the '60s more than the present day.

What is "appropriate education," Obama?

According to McCain, it's abstinence-only education.

One word: Bristol.

10:12 pm by Katie Engelhart: [delete]

I can't even be articulate here because I think I'm going to cry.

People need to realize that McCain is far from a man of the centre - he is a radical, right-wing extremist when it comes to women's health and a handful of other issues. (Shameless plug: see my column tomorrow)

a ban on late-term abortions, this new from Obama...

But not with swing voters, who are largely pro-choice.

Bringing up the Born-Alive act. This is dynamite in evangelical circles.

Comparing abortion rights to first-amendment rights--that's a comparison that's liable to rub some people the wrong way.

I think that Obama is coming out stronger here than he has in a long time.

BUT he makes one huge mistake. Abortion doesn't need to involve "consultation" between patients and doctors. The choice of whether or not to abort is NOT a negotiation. It is a choice made by women that doctors have no right to intervene in.

Senator Obama was not a Senator when Justice Breyer (a Massachusetts liberal) was confirmed, and would most likely have voted for him. McCain IS addled and erratic and out of it. Get your head in the game!

I didn't know that McCain voted for Ginsburg and Breyer. Good move to bring it up.

If McCain is elected, and one of the Supreme Court justices croaks, I'm leaving this country.

Who comes up with this Joe Plumber stuff, seriously? This is a great replacement, at least, for "my friends."

Cadillacs, Herbert Hoover, what's next... studebakers?

I mean...

I think movies like Michael Moore's SICKO perpetuate lies about the Canadian healthcare system. There are a lot of problems with Canadian healthcare.

BUT I WILL defend the Canadian philosophy that healthcare access is a right, and not a privilege. We had a national election yesterday in Canada... and healthcare was actually a non-issue. Not even the most right-wing Conservative would DARE to come out against universal healthcare.

Obama's predictions are based on RAND corporation estimates. His plan's "savings" won't kick in until 2019!

McCain should have hit back on this.

Mac's tie looks black, not blue. He looks like he's going to a funeral — perhaps for his campaign?

Katie, you gonna answer that swipe at Canadian healthcare?

Yeah I doubt Cindy takes care of calls to the plumber.

The media room just erupted in laughter.

Does McCain even call his own plumber?

I have a feeling that Joe the plumber will be making an SNL appearance.

What kind of "information technology" will make the bureaucracy more efficient?

Al Gore already invented the internet to help out the Pentagon. I'm curious to hear what kind of devices Obama is referring to.

Oy, enough of the Herbert Hoover references!

Dave brings up a good point that the "Republican executive being a check on a Democratic legislature" argument was used by William Weld and Mitt Romney is Massachusetts successfully for over a decade.

Conservative pundits have suggested McCain use this line of attack, he doesn't seem to be listening.

This is the second time McCain has made reference to Clinton in order to validate his own political decisions.

This is a critical issue on the economy. Many pundits have predicted that Obama and a Democratic congress will be more protectionist than ever.

McCain is subtly making a case for his presidency being a check on a Democratic Congress. He should make is explicitly.

Drill here! Drill now! Sun compets are installing derricks in the basement at 139 W. State as we speak.

Where is this 10 year forecast coming from, Mr. Presidential Candidate / Amateur geologist?

He is just using buzzwords: sustainability!

Damn STRAIGHT, Canadian oil is fine.

The oil sands of the Canadian prairies are going to make me rich, goddam it.

Schieffer is missing the point asking for numbers — the presidency is about character and it is about the big picture.

The Republicans should haze McCain - If he makes reference to anything that happened more than 30 years ago, he has to funnel a beer.

McCain's droppin' Yinglish: "cockamamie" makes an entrance.

Cockamamie!

AMAZING! McCain defends Palin by yet another reference to her infant with Downs Syndrome. COMMON! This is a country... not a childcare facility.

Obama predictably dodged this question.

I mean, Schieffer just handed this one to Obama. But I think this question is offering McCain a real opportunity to account for Palin's behavior in recent weeks. Let's see if he uses it.

A big sigh just cascaded through the media room. The media has more disdain for Palin than they do for Bush.

McCain's slip-ups are getting worse. Whining that his feelings are hurt, defending the racist comments at his rallies ...

Obama can spew b.s. better than McCain because he is a lawyer. This is getting really bad. Good job by Schieffer for ending it.

Paul Volcker was a disaster!!! He worked in the Jimmy Carter campaign!

C'mon Barack.

Obama is killing. What an amazing answer.

Good answer by Obama on the people that will be surrounding him in the White House.

All these references to intellectual public figures and academics is not going to persuade Joe the Plumber - circa half an hour ago - that Obama's hands are clean.

I care!

Obama is right. Who cares about Bill Ayers!?

This is quickly deteriorating. Obama is even starting to show some emotion.

This is going to be very interesting...

Yeah. That "I'm proud" comment is going to make a wicked negative campaign add!

"I'm proud of the people who come to our rallies" — like that guy with the Curious George doll?

here

Where's McCain's flag lapel pin?

Obama is repeating talking points ad nauseum.

But McCain's "I'm proud of the people at our rallies" came off a little wrong.

This is descending into stupidity.

I want Obama to look at the camera and say: "Yes, there are allegations that I am a Muslim. But I am not going to waste your time refuting that. Because even if I WAS a Muslim, that would be OK. Because this nation is a nation of tolerance."

I try to fulfill your fantasies about us.

Obama is projecting the cool temperament he's become known for. McCain DOES seem irritable.

case and point

These guys need to hug it out. Like Samuel Tilden and Rutherford B. Hayes, natch.

Watching the debate with Jordan and Dave is distracting. They feed off each other with obscure historical references.

I want to meet Joe the plumber!

True Katie, McCain probably took the best course of action on that question.

Obama did not answering the question and resorting to talking points...

Why wasn't he campaigning? Why is this guy taking the weekend off to watch football?

Now I think that is a tough issue, Jordan. Does McCain really have to apologize for racist statements made by his supporters? I think that asking candidates to answer for Americans who support them is unrealistic and unproductive. On the other hand, I do agree that McCain has to speak about the issue, rather than just ignoring it.

McCain looked him in the eye and said told his grievances straight to Obama. Great improvement over the first debate.

McCain is standing his ground on the Palin comments at the rallies. Surprising! He's just responding with more attacks.

McCain is on fire.

I think the candidates must practice their that-dude-is-a-LIAR-smirking-face. Obama's is pretty good.

A very pointed question by Schieffer, will McCain apologize for some of the comments at his rallies. Will Rev. Wright be brought up by either candidate?

So if Obama had only done Town Hall meetings, McCain wouldn't have essentially called him a terrorist?

Words used by the Obama campaign: "erratic, out of touch, lie, losing his bearings"

Words used by the McCain campaign: "disrespectful, dangerous, dishonorable"

OK I take it back, Schieffer is a bad ass.

Let's kiss and make up.

I agree, Jordan. That would be a great question. Ask the candidates to name the policy they would eliminate if they HAD to pick one.

Obama attacking Fox News, bad move.

McCain is like a pitcher, he takes 20 minutes to warm up.

Good punch by McCain!

WOW!

He really is playing into the "Mr. Wilson" trope — the grumpy old man yelling at the kids to get out of his yards. Oh, and Hannibal Lecter.

"That's a hatchet and then I would get out a scalpel." And then I will eat your liver with fava beans and Chianti.

Both candidates failed to mention one program they would eliminate.

This hurts McCain more than Obama, since he is from the party of small government.

McCain needs to stop dropping references to anything that happened before 1960.

"During the depression era" — Mac is just highlighting his age. Most Americans don't have direct experience with 1936.

A depression-era history lesson from McCain. Thrilling.

Schieff-meister has been hooting for the past six day's that he was gonna get specific answers from these guys. So far, nothing — from either side.

Does Obama have a money tree? Tax cuts. Tax cuts. We're diving head first towards depression. I don't understand why the moderators aren't pushing the candidates harder on this.

No specific examples yet Barack???

A good question by Schieffer, this has been asked in every debate, let's see if the candidates actually answer this.

Nice flag lapel pin, Barack.

FDR raised taxes, too, though, Jordan. Apparently country was in a darkness, and had not yet heard the gospel of the Gipper. And Grover Norquist.

Hmm this whole Joe the Plumber debate reminds me of another conversation about plumbers - ie: the constant racially-motivated references in France to 'the Polish plumber,' stealer of jobs from fine Frenchman.

Prof Burkhauser would be sad to see these fine gents didn't take Econ 101. Pushing an isolationist economic policy, motivated by racist fears of foreign influence, is just poor form.

Ireland doesn't support a nuclear arsenal, either. That's why they can afford to tax at 11 percent.

Hey everyone,

Good to be here, albeit late. Finally some balance is restored to the room.

McCain makes a good point about the folly of raising taxes while entering a recession. That's what the Dems favorite Republican Herbert Hoover did.

Are Joe the Plumber and Joe Sixpack the same dude?

McCain talking directly to the camera, he's clearly learned something.

Katie, that's sort of a significant linguistic difference given that the GOP has been trying to blame the crisis on Dems helping the poor, while the Dems have been blaming it on bankers.

I'm watching this thing on HDTV. McCain looks even more decrepit, and Obama even more vigorous.

McCain: "sub-prime situation"

Obama: "financial crisis"

"Fannie and Freddie Mae." Apparently there was a wedding?

I'm so tired of hearing all this tax cut mumbojumbo. Where is the money for the tax cut coming from? Something's gotta give. That should be the first question.

True, Ben. If you watch the news most folks wear dark solids.

Schieffer in the red, white and blue.

When will these candidates learn not to wear striped ties on TV?!

McCain looks depressed.

Oh wow. McCain in a blue tie and Obama in a red tie. This is a bold bipartisan statement.

Barack Obama looks so relaxed.

Also in the room are various Sun editors and staff, who are bound to chime in at various points in the evening. Bob Schieffer's starting now, so we're going to begin as well.

Hey folks and welcome to The Sun's live blog of the third and final presidential debate between Dennis the Menace and Mr. Wilson — uh, I mean, Barack Obama and John McCain.

I'm David Wittenberg, The Sun's associate editor (I run the opinion pages). Joining me tonight are Katie Engelhart, The Sun's senior editor for opinion, Jordan Fabian, editor-at-large at the conservative Cornell Review, and, in a special appearance, former Sun columnist Ben Birnbaum, who is blogging from inside the media room at the debate hall at Hofstra Univ. this evening. For the past three days Ben has been covering the McCain campaign from the campaign's plane.